Peter Arnett interviews Osam Bin Ladin

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Transcript of Osama Bin Ladin interview by Peter Arnett The first-
ever television interview with Osama Bin Ladin was conducted by Peter
Arnett in eastern Afghanistan in late March 1997. Questions were
submitted in advance. Bin Ladin responded to almost all of the
questions. CNN was not allowed to ask follow up questions. The
interview lasted just over an hour.

ARNETT: Mr. Bin Ladin, could you give us your main criticism of the
Saudi royal Family that is ruling Saudi Arabia today?

MR. BIN LADIN: Regarding the criticisms of the ruling regime in Saudi
Arabia and the Arabian peninsula, the first one is their
subordination to the US. So, our main problem is the US government
while the Saudi regime is but a branch or an agent of the US. By
being loyal to the US regime, the Saudi regime has committed an act
against Islam. And this, based on the ruling of Shari'a (Islamic
jurisprudence), casts the regime outside the religious community.
Subsequently, the regime has stopped ruling people according to what
God revealed, praise and glory be to Him, not to mention many other
contradictory acts. When this main foundation was violated, other
corrupt acts followed in every aspect of the country, the economic,
the social, government services and so on.

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, if the Islamic movement takes over Arabia,
what kind of society will be created and will Saudi Arabia, for
example, return to the laws of the Qur'an at the time of the Prophet?

BIN LADIN: We are confident, with the permission of God, Praise and
Glory be to Him, that Muslims will be victorious in the Arabian
peninsula and that God's religion, praise and glory be to Him, will
prevail in this peninsula. It is a great pride and a big hope that
the revelation unto Muhammad, Peace be upon him, will be resorted to
for ruling. When we used to follow Muhammad's revelation, Peace be
upon him, we were in great happiness and in great dignity, to God
belong credit and praise.

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, if the Islamic movement takes over Saudi
Arabia, what would your attitude to the West be and will the price of
oil be higher?

BIN LADIN: We are a nation and have a long history, with the grace of
God, Praise and Glory be to Him. We are now in the 15th century of
this great religion, the complete and comprehensive methodology, has
clarified the dealing between an individual and another, the duties
of the believer towards God, Praise and Glory be to Him, and the
relationship between the Muslim country and other countries in time
of peace and in time of war. If we look back at our history, we will
find there were many types of dealings between the Muslim nation and
the other nations in time of peace and in time of war, including
treaties and matters to do with commerce. So it is not a new thing
that we need to come up with. Rather, it already, by the grace of
God, exists. As for oil, it is a commodity that will be subject to
the price of the market according to supply and demand. We believe
that the current prices are not realistic due to the Saudi regime
playing the role of a US agent and the pressures exercised by the US
on the Saudi regime to increase production and flooding the market
that caused a sharp decrease in oil prices.

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, you've declared a jihad against the United
States. Can you tell us why? And is the jihad directed against the US
government or the United States' troops in Arabia? What about US
civilians in Arabia or the people of the United States?

BIN LADIN: We declared jihad against the US government, because the
US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed
acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly
or through its support of the Israeli occupation of the Prophet's
Night Travel Land (Palestine). And we believe the US is directly
responsible for those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq.
The mention of the US reminds us before everything else of those
innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and arms cut off
in the recent explosion that took place in Qana (in Lebanon). This US
government abandoned even humanitarian feelings by these hideous
crimes. It transgressed all bounds and behaved in a way not witnessed
before by any power or any imperialist power in the world. They
should have been considerate that the qibla (Mecca) of the Muslims
upheaves the emotion of the entire Muslim World. Due to its
subordination to the Jews the arrogance and haughtiness of the US
regime has reached, to the extent that they occupied the qibla of the
Muslims (Arabia) who are more than a billion in the world today. For
this and other acts of aggression and injustice, we have declared
jihad against the US, because in our religion it is our duty to make
jihad so that God's word is the one exalted to the heights and so
that we drive the Americans away from all Muslim countries. As for
what you asked whether jihad is directed against US soldiers, the
civilians in the land of the Two Holy Places (Saudi Arabia, Mecca and
Medina) or against the civilians in America, we have focused our
declaration on striking at the soldiers in the country of The Two
Holy Places. The country of the Two Holy Places has in our religion a
peculiarity of its own over the other Muslim countries. In our
religion, it is not permissible for any non-Muslim to stay in our
country. Therefore, even though American civilians are not targeted
in our plan, they must leave. We do not guarantee their safety,
because we are in a society of more than a billion Muslims. A
reaction might take place as a result of US government's hitting
Muslim civilians and executing more than 600 thousand Muslim children
in Iraq by preventing food and medicine from reaching them. So, the
US is responsible for any reaction, because it extended its war
against troops to civilians. This is what we say. As for what you
asked regarding the American people, they are not exonerated from
responsibility, because they chose this government and voted for it
despite their knowledge of its crimes in Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq and
in other places and its support of its agent regimes who filled our
prisons with our best children and scholars. We ask that may God
release them.

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, will the end of the United States' presence
in Saudi Arabia, their withdrawal, will that end your call for jihad
against the United States and against the US ?

BIN LADIN: The cause of the reaction must be sought and the act that
has triggered this reaction must be eliminated. The reaction came as
a result of the US aggressive policy towards the entire Muslim world
and not just towards the Arabian peninsula. So if the cause that has
called for this act comes to an end, this act, in turn, will come to
an end. So, the driving-away jihad against the US does not stop with
its withdrawal from the Arabian peninsula, but rather it must desist
from aggressive intervention against Muslims in the whole world.

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, tell us about your experience during the
Afghan war and what did you do during that jihad?

BIN LADIN: Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the
worlds, that He made it possible for us to aid the Mujahidin in
Afghanistan without any declaration for jihad. It was rather the news
that was broadcast by radio stations that the Soviet Union invaded a
Muslim country. This was a sufficient motivation for me to start to
aid our brothers in Afghanistan. I have benefited so greatly from the
jihad in Afghanistan that it would have been impossible for me to
gain such a benefit from any other chance and this cannot be measured
by tens of years but rather more than that, Praise and Gratitude be
to God. In spite of the Soviet power, we used to move with confidence
and God conferred favors on us so that we transported heavy equipment
from the country of the Two Holy Places (Arabia) estimated at
hundreds of tons altogether that included bulldozers, loaders, dump
trucks and equipment for digging trenches. When we saw the brutality
of the Russians bombing Mujahidins' positions, by the grace of God,
we dug a good number of huge tunnels and built in them some storage
places and in some others we built a hospital. We also dug some
roads, by the grace of God, Praise and glory be to Him, one of which
you came by to us tonight. So our experience in this jihad was great,
by the grace of God, praise and glory be to Him, and the most of what
we benefited from was that the myth of the super power was destroyed
not only in my mind but also in the minds of all Muslims. Slumber and
fatigue vanished and so was the terror which the US would use in its
media by attributing itself super power status or which the Soviet
Union used by attributing itself as a super power. Today, the entire
Muslim world, by the grace of God, has imbibed the faithful spirit of
strength and started to interact in a good manner in order to bring
an end to occupation and the Western and American influence on our
countries.

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, what was the significance of the Afgan war
for the Islamic movement? Veterans of that war are fighting for
Islamic movements and conflicts from the former Soviet republics such
as Chechnya to Bosnia to Algeria. Can you explain that phenomemon to
us?

BIN LADIN: As I mentioned in my answer to the previous question, the
effect of jihad has been great not only at the level of the Islamic
movement but rather at the level of the Muslim nation in the whole
world. The spirit of power, dignity and confidence has grown in our
sons and brothers for this religion and the power of God, Praise and
Glory be to Him. And it has become apparent even to the Islamic
movement that there is no choice but return to the original spring,
to this religion, to God's Book, Praise and Glory be to Him, and to
the sunna of His Prophet, Peace be upon him, as understood by our
predecessors, may God be pleased with them. Of this, the acme of this
religion is jihad. The nation has had a strong conviction that there
is no way to obtain faithful strength but by returning to this jihad.
The influence of the Afghan jihad on the Islamic world was so great
and it necessitates that people should rise above many of their
differences and unite their efforts against their enemy. Today, the
nation is interacting well by uniting its efforts through jihad
against the US which has in collaboration with the Israeli government
led the ferocious campaign against the Islamic World in occupying the
holy sites of the Muslims. As for the young men who participated in
jihad here, their number, by the grace of God, was quite big, Praise
and Gratitude be to Him, and they spread in every place in which non-
believers' injustice is perpetuated against Muslims. Their going to
Bosnia, Chechnya, Tajikistan and other countries is but a fulfillment
of a duty, because we believe that these states are part of the
Islamic World. Therefore, any act of aggression against any of this
land of a span of hand measure makes it a duty for Muslims to send a
sufficient number of their sons to fight off that aggression.

REPORTER: Can you tell us now about your expulsion from Saudi Arabia
and your time you spent in Sudan and your arrival here in Afganistan?

BIN LADIN: I was, by the grace of God, Praise and Glory be to Him,
in the great spot that is dear to God, Praise and Glory be to Him, al-
hijaz, especially Venerable Mecca, where is God's Ancient House.
However, the Saudi regime imposed on the people a life that does not
appeal to the free believer. They wanted the people to eat and drink
and celebrate the praise of God, but if the people wanted to
encourage what is right and forbid what is wrong, they can't. Rather,
the regime dismisses them from their jobs and in the event they
continued to do so, they are detained in prisons. I have rejected to
live this submissive life, by God's favor, Praise and Gratitude be to
Him, that is not befitting of man let alone a believer. So, I waited
for the chance until, God, Praise and Glory be to Him, has made it
possible for me to leave the country of the Two Holy Places. I hope
God, Praise and Glory be to Him, would confer upon me His favor to
return one day when God's law rules in that country. I went to the
Sudan and stayed there for about
five years during which I visited Afghanistan and Pakistan to work
against the Communist government in Kabul. When the Saudi government
transgressed in oppressing all voices of the scholars and the voices
of those who call for Islam, I found myself forced, especially after
the government prevented Sheik Salman al-Awdah and Sheik Safar al-
Hawali and some other scholars, to carry out a small part of my duty
of enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong. So, I
collaborated with some brothers and established a committee for
offering advice and we started to publish some declarations. (The
Advice and Reformation Committee). However, the Saudi regime did not
like this and started to exercise pressure on the Sudanese regime.
The US government, the Egyptian government and the Yemeni government
also helped in doing so. They requested me explicitly from the
Sudanese regime and the pressure continued. Saudi Arabia dropped all
of its conditions put to the Sudanese regime in return that I be
driven out of the Sudan. The US government had already taken the same
stance and pulled out its diplomatic mission from Khartoum and put
forth their condition to return only after I have left.
Unfortunately, the Sudanese government was in some difficult
circumstances and there was a tendency inside the government that was
inclined to reconciliation or surrender. Then, when they insisted
initially that I should keep my mouth shut, I decided to look for a
land in which I can breathe a pure, free air to perform my duty in
enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong. I ask God,
Praise and Glory be to Him, for increase in prosperity for this great
land, the Land of Khurasan (Afghanistan) in order to carry on this
duty. So, we implore God, Praise and Glory be to Him, that He accept
(our deeds) from us and the Muslims. Now, the United States
government says that you are still funding military training camps
here in Afganistan for militant, Islamic fighters and that you are a
sponser of international terrorism; but others describe you as the
new hero of the Arab-Islamic world. Are these accusations true? How
do you describe yourself? BIN LADIN: After the collapse of the Soviet
Union in which the US has no mentionable role, but rather the credit
goes to God, Praise and Glory be to Him, and the Mujahidin in
Afghanistan, this collapse made the US more haughty and arrogant and
it has started to look at itself as a Master of this world and
established what it calls the new world order. It wanted to delude
people that it can do whatever it wants, but it can't do this. It
leveled against me and others as many accusations as it desired and
wished. It is these (accusations) that you mentioned. The US today as
a result of the arrogant atmosphere has set a double standard,
calling whoever goes against its injustice a terrorist. It wants to
occupy our countries, steal our resources, impose on us agents to
rule us based not on what God has revealed and wants us to agree on
all these. If we refuse to do so, it will say you are terrorists.
With a simple look at the US behaviors, we find that it judges the
behavior of the poor Palestinian children whose country was occupied:
if they throw stones against the Israeli occupation, it says they are
terrorists whereas when the Israeli pilots bombed the United Nations
building in Qana, Lebanon while was full of children and women, the
US stopped any plan to condemn Israel. At the time that they condemn
any Muslim who calls for his right, they receive the highest top
official of the Irish Republican Army (Gerry Adams) at the White
House as a political leader , while woe, all woe is the Muslims if
they cry out for their rights. Wherever we look, we find the US as
the leader of terrorism and crime in the world. The US does not
consider it a terrorist act to throw atomic bombs at nations
thousands of miles away, when it would not be possible for those
bombs to hit military troops only. These bombs were rather thrown at
entire nations, including women, children and elderly people and up
to this day the traces of those bombs remain in Japan. The US does
not consider it terrorism when hundreds of thousands of our sons and
brothers in Iraq died for lack of food or medicine. So, there is no
base for what the US says and this saying does not affect us, because
we, by the grace of God, are dependent on Him, Praise and Glory be to
Him, getting help from Him against the US. As for the last part of
your question, we are fulfilling a duty which God, Praise and Glory
be to Him, decreed for us. We look upon those heroes, those men who
undertook to kill the American occupiers in Riyadh and Khobar
(Dhahran). We describe those as heroes and describe them as men. They
have pulled down the disgrace and submissiveness off the forehead of
their nation. We ask Allah, Praise and Glory be to Him, to accept
them as martyrs. REPORTER: Let's go to the bombings of United States
troops in Riyadh and Dhahran. Why did they happen and were you and
your supporters involved in these attacks?

BIN LADIN: We ask about the main reason that called for this
explosion. This explosion was a reaction to a US provocation of the
Muslim peoples, in which the US transgressed in its aggression until
it reached the qibla of the Muslims in the whole world. So, the
purpose of of the two explosions is to get the American occupation
out (of Arabia). So if the U.S. does not want to kill its sons who
are in the army, then it has to get out.

Q: On the same issue of the American troops in Saudi Arabia, do you
think will be more bombing attacks on them? or attacks on U.S.
civilians in Arabia? or assassination attempts for example, on the
Saudi royal families?

BIN LADIN: As for the previous question, the explosion of Riyadh and
the one in Al-Khobar (Dhahran). It is no secret that during the two
explosions, I was not in Saudi Arabia, but I have great respect for
the people who did this action. I say, as I said before, they are
heroes. We look upon them as men who wanted to raise the flag
of "There is no God but Allah", and to put an end the non believers
and the state of injustice that the U.S. brought. I also say that
what they did is a great job and a big honor that I missed
participating in.

Q) Do you think there will be more bombing attacks on American troops
in Saudi Arabia? or attacks on American civilians in Saudi Arabia? or
will there be assassination attempts on the Saudi Arabian ruling
family?

BIN LADIN: It is known that every action has its reaction. If the
American presence continues, and that is an action, then it is
natural for reactions to continue against this presence. In other
words, explosions and killings of the American soldiers would
continue. These are the troops who left their country and their
families and came here with all arrogance to steal our oil and
disgrace us, and attack our religion. As for what was mentioned about
the ruling (Saudi) family those in charge, do bear the full
responsibility of everything that may happen. They are the shadow of
the American presence. The people and the young men are concentrating
their efforts on the sponsor and not on the sponsored. The
concentration at this point of Jihad is against the American
occupiers.

Q) What are your views about Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman and have you
ever met him? Do you know him?

BIN LADIN: Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman is a Muslim scholar well-known all
over the Muslim world. He represents the kind of injustice that is
adopted by the U.S. A baseless case was fabricated against him even
though he is a blind old man. We ask Allah, The Almighty, to relieve
him. The U.S. sentenced him to hundreds of years just to please its
caprice and the whims of the Egyptian regime. He is now very badly
treated and in no way fit for an old man like him or any Muslim
scholar.

Q) The U.S. State Department quoting a Pakistani official says that
Ramzi Yousef, a convicted bomber in the World Trade Center in New
York City stayed in the house you funded in Peshawar, Pakistan for
those receiving training during the Afghan conflict after the Trade
Center bombing, is that true? Did Ramzi Yousef stay in your house in
Peshawar?

BIN LADIN: I do not know Ramzi Yousef. What the American government
and Pakistani intelligence has been reporting is not true at all. But
I say if the American government is serious about avoiding the
explosions inside the U.S., then let it stop provoking the feelings
of 1,250 million Muslims. Those hundreds of thousands who have been
killed or displaced in Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, do have brothers and
relatives. They would make of Ramzi Yousef a symbol and a teacher.
The U.S. will drive them to transfer the battle into the United
States. Everything is made possible to protect the blood of the
American citizen while the bloodshed of Muslims is allowed in every
place. With this kind of behavior, the U.S. government is hurting
itself, hurting Muslims and hurting the American people. Q) Mr. Bin
Ladin, were you involved in financing the bombing of the World Trade
Center in New York City?

BIN LADIN: I have no connection or relation with this explosion.

Q) Mr. Bin Ladin, in a recent interview with an Arabic newspaper, you
said that Arabs who fought in the Afghan war killed U.S. troops in
Mogadishu, Somalia. Can you tell us about that?

BIN LADIN: The U.S. government went there with great pride and stayed
there for some time with a strong media presence wanting to frighten
people that it is the greatest power on earth. It went there with
pride and with over 28,000 soldiers, to a poor unarmed people in
Somalia. The goal of this was to scare the Muslim world and the whole
world saying that it is able to do whatever it desires. As soon as
the troops reached the Mogadishu beaches, they found no one but
children. The CNN and other media cameras started photographing them
(the soldiers) with their camouflage and heavy arms, entering with a
parade crawling (on the ground) and showing themselves to the world
as the "greatest power on earth". Resistance started against the
American invasion, because Muslims do not believe the U.S.
allegations that they came to save the Somalis.A man with human
feelings in his heart does not distinguish between a child killed in
Palestine or in Lebanon, in Iraq or in Bosnia. So how can we believe
your claims that you came to save our children in Somalia while you
kill our children in all of those places? With Allah's grace, Muslims
over there, cooperated with some Arab "Mujahideen" who were in
Afghanistan. They participated with their brothers in Somalia against
the American occupation troops and killed large numbers of them. The
American administration was aware of that. After a little resistance,
The American troops left after achieving nothing. They left after
claiming that they were the largest power on earth. They left after
some resistance from powerless, poor, unarmed people whose only
weapon is the belief in Allah The Almighty, and who do not fear the
fabricated American media lies. We learned from those who fought
there, that they were surprised to see the low spiritual morale of
the American fighters in comparison with the experience they had with
the Russian fighters. The Americans ran away from those fighters who
fought and killed them, while the latter were still there. If the
U.S. still thinks and brags that it still has this kind of power even
after all these successive defeats in Vietnam, Beirut, Aden, and
Somalia, then let them go back to those who are awaiting its return.

Q) Mr. Bin Lladin, your family is a rich powerful family in Saudi
Arabia. Have they, or the Saudi Arabian government asked you to stop
your activities?

BIN LADIN: They have done that a lot. They have pressured us a lot,
especially since a lot of our money is still in the hands of the
Saudi ruling family due to activities of the our family and company
(Saudi construction giant, the BinLadin Group). They sent me my
mother, my uncle, and my brothers in almost nine visits to Khartoum
(Sudan) asking me to stop and return to Arabia to apologize to King
Fahd. I apologized to my family kindly because I know that they were
driven by force to come to talk to me. This regime wants to create a
problem between me and my family and in order to take some measures
against them. But, with Allah's grace, this regime did not get its
wish fulfilled. I refused to go back. They (my family) conveyed the
Saudi government's message that if I did not go back, they'll freeze
all my assets, deprive me of my citizenship, my passport, and my
Saudi I.D. and distort my picture in the Saudi and foreign media.
They think that a Muslim may bargain on his religion. I said to them
do whatever you may wish. It is with Allah's bounty, we refused to go
back. We are living in dignity and honor for whom we thank Allah. It
is much better for us to live under a tree here on these mountains
than to live in palaces in the most sacred land to Allah, while being
subjected to disgrace not worshipping Allah even in the most sacred
land on earth, where injustice is so widespread. There is no strength
except with Allah.

Q) Mr. Bin Ladin, have Saudi agents attempted to assassinate you? Are
you targeted by the U.S. government? Are you in fact in fear of your
life?

BIN LADIN: The U.S. pressures are no secret to you. The Saudi
pressures are also in response to American pressures. There were
several attempts to arrest me or to assassinate me. This has been
going on for more than seven years. With Allah's grace, none of these
attempts succeeded. This is a proof in itself to Muslims and to the
world that the U.S. is incapable and weaker than the picture it wants
to draw in people's mind. A believer must rest assured that life is
only in the hands of Allah, and sustenance is also in the hands of
Allah, the Almighty. As for fearing for one's life, it is difficult
to explain to you how we think of ourselves, unless you have full
belief. We believe that no one could take out one breath of our
written life as ordained by Allah. We see that we see that getting
killed in the cause of Allah is a great honor wished for by our
Prophet (PBUH). He said in his Hadith: "I swear to Allah, I wish to
fight for Allah's cause and be killed, I'll do it again and be
killed, and I'll do it again and be killed". Being killed for Allah's
cause is a great honor achieved by only those who are the elite of
the nation. We love this kind of death for Allah's cause as much as
you like to live. We have nothing to fear for. It is something we
wish for.

Q) What are your future plans?

BIN LADIN: You'll see them and hear about them in the media, God
willing.

Q) Mr. Bin Ladin, if you had an opportunity to give a message to
President Clinton, what would that message be?

BIN LADIN: Mentioning the name of Clinton or that of the American
government provokes disgust and revulsion. This is because the name
of the American government and the name of Clinton and Bush directly
reflect in our minds the picture of children with their heads cut off
before even reaching one year of age. It reflects the picture of
children with their hands cut off, the picture of the children who
died in Iraq, the picture of the hands of the Isrealis with weapons
destroying our children. The hearts of Muslims are filled with hatred
towards the United States of America and the American president The
President has a heart that knows no words. A heart that kills
hundreds of children definitely, knows no words. Our people in the
Arabian Peninsula will sent him messages with no words because he
does not know any words. If there is a message that I may send
through you, then it is a message I address to the mothers of the
American troops who came here with their military uniform walking
proudly up and down our land while the scholars of our country are
thrown in prisons. I say that this represents an a blatant
provocation to 1,250 million Muslims. To these mothers I say if they
are concerned for their sons, then let them object to the American
government's policy and to the American president. Do not let
themselves be cheated by his standing before the bodies of the killed
soldiers describing the freedom fighters in Saudi Arabia as
terrorists. It is he who is a terrorist who pushed their sons into
this for the sake of the Isreali interest. We believe that the
American army in Saudi Arabia came to separate between the Muslims
and the people for not ruling in accordance with Allah's wish. They
came to be in support of the Israeli forces in occupied Palestine,
the land of the "Israa" of our Prophet (PBUH).